Test-bet with the wrap, then backed into the nut low.
Bottom set played with appropriate caution. Nubby had AAQ3 ds and didn't raise pf...bad play.
Thought I was betting the nut low for the chop, but my pair of eights were good for high. Villain was calling with his A4 low.
(A522r) Betting the low draw eventually takes it down. A good example of a naked A2 not being worth a raise pf anymore. Jason, would you play this similarly? It doesn't have too much scoop potential, but on the button with A-2-wheel and a pair...
Somewhat of a loose call turns into an interesting flop. When you three-pair the flop, it's less likely you are facing a set, so I raised the villain's flop bet, who was playing solidly and I felt could fold what was probably at best a draw.
Double-suited aces bet the whole way. Villain misses his nut low draw but decides to call me anyway. Thanks!.
$5 --> $15.07
32 Hands
$271.59
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7 comments:
Interesting pre-flop raise from the big-blind with 7788. I'm guessing this was a light attempt to thin the limpers a little bit, but could you expand on the thinking there? That hand just feels ultimately unplayable, and am surprised to see you raise with it at all.
Well, I didn't raise, I was in the SB. That was the BB who made a very questionable minraise with KQ32, suited K.
By the time it came back to me I was capping the action six ways, and it was an easy call.
As for the unplayability of 8877ss, I'd like to hear Jason's thoughts, but I disagree.
Yes, sets are dangerous when you hit them, and yes it's playing middle cards, the death knell of O8, but I wouldn't call it unplayable.
Jason, break it down. You get 8877ss in six-handed O8. What do you do with it in the following scenarios, assuming mixed but generally donkish players who like to see flops:
1) UTG
2) Folded to you on the button
3) 2 limps, one fold to you on the button
4) The cutoff seat bets pot after UTG/UTG+1 fold
5) Folds to you in the SB
6) UTG minraises, folds to the SB who calls
Oops, you are on the button in scenario #4.
Oh, right, you did call, not raise. Capping the action with so much money out ahead of you seems like an ok call there, but I guess for me it boils down to: what are you hoping to hit on the flop, regardless of how the betting goes pf?
A 7 or an 8 are going to be sets, for sure, but almost certainly undercards to potentially-higher sets.
A 2-gapper straight could potentially be nice, but only if the board doesn't pair and your non-straight cards on the board don't make somebody else's higher straight, or give them half the flop by making a good low.
3 diamonds would give you a not-too pretty flush.
I'm not trying to poke holes in your logic; lord knows I'm no Omaha expert. I'm just trying to work it through.
I'm desperate to work my stack up to a size where I can play O8 online and stay within the Ferguson rules. It's going to take me a while, though.
Oversets aren't always out there, particularly with that kind of action. And, when you do flop a set, there's no law that says you have to go all the way with it. If you bet your set and get called (on a board where top set is the nuts), it is the best hand, as an overset is going to raise you.
If you bet and get raised, you can bail if you think you are beat.
6-handed vs. 10-handed is a pretty dramatic difference, too. It's a much worse hand at full ring, but there is solid potential. I'm looking to flop sets and open-enders.
Again, the biggest problem with the hand is that making a high hand you are willing to go all the way with increases the chance of a qualifying low, and a chopped pot (69Tr is your dream flop, short of K77 or K88).
That is certainly what makes it not a raising hand. However, in a multiway flop when you do hit with this hand, consider a couple things:
* The Quartering Fairy predominantly visits the low players, not the high players. Yes, you want to scoop, but if you can't scoop, getting half of a three-way all in with lots of pf dead money is a nice, and frequent, second-best-case scenario (be it quartering fairy or nut low vs. non-nut low).
* When you hit the flop hard enough to go to the felt with, the low hand is frequently still just drawing to it, it's not necessarily there.
So, say the flop in that hand was a little nicer for my set...say K73r. If you lead out for a pot-sized bet and you get callers but no raisers, you can assume that nobody has KK, and that 99/TT/JJ/QQ have all folded unless they are backed by A2 or A3, or some other low draw.
If the turn comes a 9 or T or whatever, you can charge those low draws the maximum to continue.
Anyway I guess my point is that there are many more favorable flop scenarios for a hand like this than there are for the true unplayable O8 junkers like KT72r.
Again, though, I'm not an O8 expert either, and would put more stake in Jason's opinion than mine at this point. He has probably logged twenty times more O8 hands than the rest of us combined, and I'm definitely curious to hear how he would handle 8877ss in the various situations I laid out...
"unless they are backed by A2 or A3, or some other low draw."
Make that A4...A3 is not a low draw in that scenario, it's just bad.
And another thing: I think someone trying to stick to Ferguson rules should *not* apply them to O8 without adjustment.
5% is sufficient for the volatility of NLHE. 5% feels too much given the volatility of PLO8. I have cut the Ferguson rules in half for my O8 play, buying in for 2%-2.5% of my roll. It's just so easy to end up all in, completely correctly, and lose your full buyin.
5% is sufficient for the volatility of NLHE. 5% feels too much given the volatility of PLO8. I have cut the Ferguson rules in half for my O8 play, buying in for 2%-2.5% of my roll. It's just so easy to end up all in, completely correctly, and lose your full buyin.
Good point. And bah. I wanna play O8! I gotta get crackin’ on this NLHE thing.
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